Author Topic: Poor soundproof window/door performance  (Read 15911 times)

apple

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Poor soundproof window/door performance
« on: November 30, 2005, 04:05:52 PM »

I'm up a tree.  

I recently purchased/up front paid for an 8' sliding door unit and a 2x5' window insert from SPW.  Both units were retrofitted (2+" inside the existing double pane units) by a licensed contractor (ie a screwdriver and caulking gun/370# Fed Ex package were too much for this handy old timer.)  

The claim of 50-90% incoming noise reduction was what sold me.  I/we've complied with the installation instructions.  A rep visited the site after I informed them (complained) that with units maybe reduced the incoming road noise 20-25%.  The rep pretty much heard what I did.  Anyway it is still a bummer to be awaken @ 4 am by the construction trucks/diesel 350s going up/coming down the hill we live on.
 
I put a stop on the payment...would be happy to pay/settle for the 50% noise reduction figure (release payment, that is.)  The firm says the units are mine: release the payment or court.  I purchased the units ($2100+450 installation+240 freight) in good faith..did not sign anything that I'm aware of that resembled "no returns."  

Bottom line: the units are not performing @ 1/2 of the minimum noise reduction touted-represented.  

Two Q:  1) Has anyone had a similar problem situation/any advice re what to do/not do?
 
2)  Do I start from scratch/de-install the original units//replace with Milgard units or ?  Help.

apple  

skip

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2005, 07:05:11 PM »
Apple:



You are not alone in trying to deal with traffic noise and working with sliding glass doors. ┬áThere is no easy solution that we know of and your idea of contacting Milgard Doors is a good one. However, you could reduce the size of the glass area by covering part of it with dampening foam as shown at  http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/prices.html  This would have the effect of reducing the sound entry area (but also reduce light, etc).


Good luck.

Chris Petersen

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2005, 06:14:49 PM »
Re soundproof sliding glass doors, soundproofwindows.com offers an exterior frame and sliding door that is supposed to work similarly to the interior window principle. The problem is I ordered mine back in September and am still waiting for delivery. They DO have a good product (I have received two smaller windows that have made a significant difference in noise) BUT they seem to be lacking in able to deliver large windows and doors (anything that requires them to order frames from an outside supplier) in a timely manner.
If you do order from them, the cost for a large sliding door will run just under $2000. The cost in waiting several months for a product should not be forgotten either, as I am quite annoyed with the wait at this point.

I also recommend that you DEMAND the sales person come to your home to measure. My sales person seemed to be less than interested in coming out in person which resulted in several calls with the manufacturer because they wanted to get it right. I felt like I was doing the salesperson's job. Good luck!!!

Chris Petersen

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2005, 06:18:05 PM »
Re soundproof sliding glass doors, soundproofwindows.com offers an exterior frame and sliding door that is supposed to work similarly to the interior window principle. The problem is I ordered mine back in September and am still waiting for delivery. They DO have a good product (I have received two smaller windows that have made a significant difference in noise) BUT they seem to be lacking in the ability to deliver large windows and doors (anything that requires them to order frames from an outside supplier) in a timely manner.  
If you do order from them, the cost for a large sliding door will run just under $2000. The cost in waiting several months for a product should not be forgotten either, as I am quite annoyed with the wait at this point.

I also recommend that you DEMAND the sales person come to your home to measure. My sales person seemed to be less than interested in coming out in person which resulted in several calls with the manufacturer because they wanted to get the measurements right. I felt like I was doing the salesperson's job. Good luck!!!

joel

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 07:41:49 PM »
Wow, what a headache.  We are a Magnetite distributor for years.  Their old framing system only took a panel thickness of .110" so they were not very practical or effective (especially for sliding glass doors).  Their new framing will take 1/4" thick.  Check out the new Magnetite website for a real eye opener (and they don't make extravagant noise reduction claims any more - actually believable info their now).  Here is the link: http://magnetitewindows.com/index.html
Still a little iffy on customer service and follow-up, however.

Juliewells

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 10:57:35 AM »
You should contact that contractor and let him know about your problems

CSK001

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2009, 06:25:00 AM »
Hi,
Thanks for this useful information.  I'm a new one in this forum.  I must appreciate the tools provided by you.  Please keep updating me in this regard.

CSK



ssol

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 01:18:16 PM »
Here is another soundproofing myth.  Carpets and egg boxes on walls of studios do not improve either the soundproofing of the room or the sound absorption.  At best the carpet may absorb some high frequency sounds and egg boxes may act as diffusers to a degree but any other acoustic improvement is in the mind.  To construct a soundproofed room within an existing building is to use the 'room within a room' concept and as the phrase suggests, this is usually constructing a room using either metal or timber studs within an existing room and at least 1 inch (25mm) away from the existing walls and ceiling.  If the room is going to be used for recording, it is best not to construct the new room with right angled corners because these can cause problems with low frequency build up.  Instead, build the room so that none of the walls are parallel and if possible, offset the ceiling too.  The stud should then be infilled with mineral wool of around 45kg/m2 density which should be a loose fit and not packed in.  The inside of the frame is then clad with a double thickness of high density plasterboard (drywall).  Access doors ideally should be a double door entry system with properly installed heavy doors fitted with acoustic seals around the frame and threshold.  A double door entry system is when you have to open two doors, one behind the other to gain entry.  Windows should be avoided but if necessary, install triple glazing using different thicknesses of glass one of which should be laminated.  Install the panes at irregular spacings with the centre pane at an angle.

Now the soundproofing has been completed you will need to fit adequate sound absorption within the room to get the tone just right.  As a rule you will need a mix of thicknesses of sound absorbers such as egg box profiled foam or any other type of profiled foam.  It is generally thought that a profiled sound absorbing surface give greater sound absorbing efficiency but if you are installing a mix of thicknesses up to 4 inches (100mm) you can use smooth faced foam and that should cover it.  It is important to use the correct density foam as well.  Although foam used in the furniture industry will work it will be much better to use a foam that has a density of around 30kg/m2 specifically developed for the purpose.  Smaller panels of foam would be best up to a maximum of 18 inches (450mm) square and these can be fitted onto the walls and ceiling randomly for best results.  Be careful not to install too much though because this will make the room too dead and you will have to remove some.  If the soundproofed room has been constructed with walls that are not parallell, standing waves between the walls should not be a problem but for those studios not so constructed, diffusers can easily be constructed out of ply and these can be leant against the walls to deflect the sound.  They can also have sound absorbing foam applied if required.

Sorry to have gone on so long and hope I haven't bored anyone.  My original intention was just to let people know that normal egg boxes and carpets are not the things to use in any studio and then before I realised, had written this much.  I know this is a US based web site but if anyone in the UK is reading this and want more information or source soundproofing and sound absorbing materials please google us at soundservice.co.uk or call us on +1993704981

Randy S

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2013, 04:23:43 PM »
Thank you for your informative post and we always appreciate pertinent information being posted.
However, only one thing I would have to debate is the triple leaf window system. I have seen lower performance off of that method than 2 panes with a greater air gap.
and normally the angle glass is on the source side or both sides for direct reflection of sound waves.
Also remember when doing double wall construction with a window there must be 2 separate window boxes with the gap caulked air tight. One pane per window box, otherwise the window box itself will be the path of vibration through the partition.

Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

jhbrandt

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 07:24:35 AM »
++1 Randy

Also the tilting of the glass can actually REDUCE the sound transmission loss... tilt only for light reflection issues. ;)

Cheers,
John

art noxon

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Re: Poor soundproof window/door performance
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 01:57:00 AM »
Here's some things to think about and work on...

1 When someone says 50% reduction, we have to begin the discussion by asking 50% reduction of what?  there are two versions of 50% reductions of sound. 

One is based on physical energy flow.  When an engineer says 50% reduction of sound energy flow, it is 10 Log 0.5 = - 3 dB. 

On the other hand, when normal people say 100% reduction of sound, them mean that it sounds half as loud compared to before and this corresponds to a -10 dB reduction in sound power transmitted.  So when people talk about 50% we have to figure out if they are saying half as loud, which is 100% reduction, 10 dB or actually 50% reduced which is only 5 dB reduction. 

2) SPW started off as a good company in Bakersfield, CA, good ole boys who built openable steel frame windows with laminated glass.  they were so successful a bunch of MBAs bought it and it is not headquartered in.....of all places, Las Vegas and they don't do steel frames, they do vinyl frames......Same ole story...

3) Adding thick plastic sheet, some sort of glare guard to your windows will quiet them down.  Dampens their twangy vibration. 

4) Tap on the middle of your new window with the tip of your finger, listen to the tone.  Does it sound like the noise coming into the house?  Sympathetic vibrations.  If you can open the new window, reach thru and tap the middle of the old window....What does it sound like.  Do the two windows have the same twang sound, if so, they are resonating with each other and the tone passes easily thru the windows. 

Take a tube, paper towel tube and put it against your ear and use the other end as a sound sniffer.  Move the open end of the listening tube around the edges of the new window.  Try to find locations with a fresh air kind of sound coming thru.  These are air gaps and sound is conducted thru them very efficiently.  Typically around the edges of the window, where the window seal should be.  Typically around the window frame where it attaches to the wood framing. 

5) Very big deal is that all too often sound leaks under the outside window molding, past the sizing gaps between the window frame and the rough out window framing, and then back into the house by leaking under the interior window trim.  You can find the leaks with the listening tube.  Often you can just put your ear near the trim and find air leaks.  Remove the trim and caulk the gap between the window sill and the roughout framing.  Same for doors. 

Enough for now, keep us posted about the results of your explorations and discoveries. 

 

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