Uninsulated Walls

[adrianpike]

I'm renting a house, and I've got two walls next to me that are a problem.  I'm in a corner of the house, and one inside wall faces my roommate, who bangs on an old keyboard that clicks very very loud.  The walls are uninsulated, so the sound carries right through.
The other wall is against the bathroom, and when the shower is running, I can barely hear myself think.
Is there any way I can cut down on these sounds on the cheap, without modifying the house in any way?

[supersoundproofing]

The MLV with closed cell foam can be attached with staples, leaving easily repaired holes when removed.  It can be painted, covered with walpaper or left black for an interesting decor...
See  http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/flooring.htm

BJ Nash  Super Soundproofing CO

[need privacy]

I'm about in the same predicument. I'm 22 an still live at home, and our walls aren't insulated and don't have sheetrock, just some kinda crappy wood that's about 1/4" thick. Sound passes right through these walls.
I would like a cheap way to make these walls pretty sound proof, at least to where they can't hear normal movement and stuff. Of course getting it to cut out loud music would get into really high $$ I'm sure.

[skip]

Insulating a 2" x 4" stud wall with Flame Retardant Cotton Fibre that absorbs sound can cost $ .80 per square foot. A sound barrier such as Mass Loaded Vinyl that would be stapled over the stud walls can cost $ 1.47 per square foot. A final layer of 5/8" thick dry wall would then complete the sound proofing job.



This is a reasonable approach to sound reduction in a residence.



Take a look at:/http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/natural_fiber.htm.

[johnbergstromslc]

And fiberglass insulation costs 21 cents per square foot, for a savings on a 1000 sq. ft. job of $590 over cotton.

That's an even more 'reasonable' price....

[skip]

Fibre Glass Insualtion in quantities for a residence can cost up to $ .45 cents a square foot on the west coast. Large commercial purchasers of fibre glass maybe able to pay .21 cents per square foot.

We have witnessed several home owners that have removed fibre glass insulation and replaced it with Flame Retardant Cotton Fibre Sound Insualation material. They have been very satisfied with the incresed sound reduction provided by the cotton fibre material.

We know of no one that has replaced cotton fibre sound insulation with fibre glass and improved their sound reduction results.

[johnbergstromslc]

Actually, I bought some R-13 fiberglass the other day.  I paid $10.80 per 53.33 sq. ft. - 21 cents/ sq. ft.

I don't mean to tell anyone to 'replace' cotton with fibergalss; they shouldn't install cotton in the first place.

Just like putting big wads of money in the wall, never to be seen again...

[supersoundproofing]

Posted by: johnbergstromslc Posted on: Aug 31st, 2006, 2:14pm

Actually, I bought some R-13 fiberglass the other day.  I paid $10.80 per 53.33 sq. ft. - 21 cents/ sq. ft.

 

I don't mean to tell anyone to 'replace' cotton with fibergalss; they shouldn't install cotton in the first place.

 

Just like putting big wads of money in the wall, never to be seen again...  

 

There will always be people stuck on 1970's technology.

This not just "cotton", John.

This is an informative website, not for just "flogging our useless products".  When we started this soundproofing forum back in 1998, we then, as now sincerely believed we here at Super Soundproofing Co are on the cutting edge of technology and those that "flog old technology" (hardware store version), have no place here in promoting a contrary view that simply attacks our motives rather than evaluating our products on the merits.

After nine years of selling advanced soundproofing materials, don't you think someone would have taken us to task by now for selling stuff that doesn't work as well as home depot fiberglass and drywall?

Don't u think someone would have complained to BBB?(Of which we have been a member for years).  Don't you know we founded this multi-million dollar soundproofing industry and have put numerous others into this business that simpley copied us?

(Some of whom are incompetent and not a credit to the industry!)

BJ Nash- CEO
Super Soundproofing Co

[johnbergstromslc]

"Flogging...useless products" are your words, not mine.  

I don't believe for one second that cotton insulation is useless in an acoustical application.  All I have to do is stand in my closet (full of cotton clothes) to know it absorbs sound.  It may even work marginally better than fiberglass (although I have seen absolutely no independent, objective proof of this.)

What makes cotton useless to me is the price.  If I have a project installing 2000 sq. ft. of insulation, do you really think I can go to the homeowner/customer and say, "I'm going to have to jack your bill another $1200 because I want to use this material that these people say is better, even though I can't offer you any proof whatsoever..."  and have them accept that?  

Get real.  

I suppose I could offer it as an option, but when they asked me if it worked better, my honest answer would have to be, "Probably not."  I'd appear like I was trying to simply cheat them.  Screw that.  

You say I should "evaluate your products".  How exactly am I supposed to do that?  Blindly buy a whole bunch and cross my fingers that it works as well as you say it does?  I'm not that trusting.  Even so, the results would be subjective and lack any sort of accuracy.  

If you're going to make these claims, I believe it's your responsibility to test your product (in an independent, third-party acoustical facility) and prove it's superiority.  Until you're willing to 'put your money where your mouth is', you're not going to win over skeptics like me.  And there are a lot of us.  

Or you could strive to reduce the price of cotton to be more inline with fiberglass.  It's ironic that with the billions of pounds of cotton produced and thrown away each year, the stuff isn't more plentiful and cheaper.  Maybe at some level it is.  I would probably use it if it were 30-40 cents/sq.ft.  To eliminate itching, I would pay that price.  

As for the "questioning your motives", I don't.  You're in this business to make money and so am I.  I question your tactics.  You try to shove cotton down everybody's throat and deny that anything else works.  Maybe if your people put a disclaimer on their posts, "Fiberglass and cellulose work, but in our opinion..." it would be easier to swallow (pun intended.)

[agtrojan]

Fiberglass insulation will offer, at best, 3-4 dB reduction.  Cotton Fiber insulation has been tested by an independent lab with results indicating it contributes between 10-12 STC to a typical 2x4 wall with 5/8" drywall on each side.

A 10dB loss represents a reduction of 50% of sound.  A 3dB loss is what most of us detect as the minimum change in sound.  So the choice is simple: A) Save money on fiberglass insulation to obtain minimal sound reduction or B) Install acoustic, Cotton Fiber insulation and realize a up to 50% reduction in sound.

[johnbergstromslc]

Nope, wrong again.  

A normal 2X4 wall, with no insulation and 1/2" drywall rates an STC of 32-33.  So you're arguing that a 2X4 wall with cotton insulation and 5/8" would score 42-45?  Bullshit.  At best, it would get a rating of 35.  If you don't believe me, see my post 'Fiber vs. Cotton: The facts'.

There is a link to an acoustical test done by a independent, third-party lab disproving your claim.

In fact, never mind, here it is:

http://www.acousticalsurfaces.com/wall_insulation/pdf/acoustic_test/AS_TL1766.pdf

By the way, the same wall with fiberglass rates an STC 34.  Case closed.

  

[agtrojan]

The assembly that is rated at 45 STC consists of 5/8" drywall + Steel Studs + Cotton Insulation + 5/8" drywall.

Note, the report you referenced uses wood studs.

Contact me if you'd like to review the report.

[johnbergstromslc]

Steel studs - yes, that sounds about right.  Although I think it's a real stretch to describe that as a "typical 2X4 wall", as you did.

So a steel stud wall with 5/8" drywall and fiberglass insulation should score 5-7 points lower than cotton?  

Nope.

The NRCC IRC has tested dozens of walls with steel studs and various types of cavity insulation.  Fiberglass has scored from 45-50 STC, depending on stud and screw spacing.

Here is the link: http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/fulltext/ir761/ir761.pdf

The 90 mm steel stud walls with 5/8" drywall and full cavity insulation are on pages 86-91.