Super Soundproofing Community Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need an answer right now? Go to http://soundproofing.org, or,  FEEDBACK

Or call us toll-free at 888-942-7723 8-5 Pacific time Weekdays. 

  If we're not in, send a email to supersoundproofing@gmail.com

You can get a free report on soundproofing by going  HERE

 MAINSITE

Author Topic: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control  (Read 4830 times)

sbeekar

  • Guest
Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« on: December 22, 2011, 03:12:15 AM »

Hello,

I live in high rise (30th floor) and looking for serious noise control for a nearby train. Sounds include the whole spectrum :). I am looking at inserting an inner window behind the existing large windows. existing windows are double panned in an aluminium frame. Total size is about 9ft tall by 8ft wide, divided into 4 quadrants. The aluminium frames are 4" deep giving a nice air space if done right.

The first local contractor I spoke to wants to install iwindow from:

http://www.seriouswindows.com/commercial/products/retrofit-glass-system.html

The site has a detailed STC noise test done on those windows and greatly explains the window. It looks like its made of a 3/16" pane, 0.5"air space, suspended "film", 0.5"air space, then finally a 3/16"pane.

I feel like this window wasn't designed with "noise" in mind but more for thermals. Is this window good for noise control?

Thanks
sbeekar

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2011, 03:42:14 AM »

the air space is what will deliver the reduction....especially for the size of your window it is critical...

Now for the bad news...depending on how far the train is from you would be the prime indicator if you will receive a great reduction or not...if you are with in 100 yards and if you get 50% I would be impressed. Train horns(across the spectm) can be heard through 6" of concrete at 100 yds. if you can hear it the halls of your building then it should speak for itself.

I will review the STC rating and testing you posted of when I get in the office tomorrow and will repost.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

sbeekar

  • Guest
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 05:18:25 PM »

Thanks Randy!

Some more info about the sound:

With window open
- Using a professional sound meter borrowed from a friend (Brüel & Kjær Type 2238 - Mediator), I did various measurements and the train noise (without horn) registers around 94 dbA max and 82dbA mean.

- This is not a typical train sound. The train is actually going around 10 mph on a very sharp bend generating all these screeching sounds metal grinding on metal. So the noise is mostly in the high frequency range with considerable low frequency only when the engine car is passing.

- This high dbA numbers seems to happen only when high pitch "track screetching"sounds are present. The engine car with the LF component registers around 78dbA.

- I could not measure the horn because during the 20 trains I sampled, non honked the horn!!   :'( :'( . However, there are city plans to turn this into a quite zone removing the horn but leaving the train.  :D



sbeekar

  • Guest
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 05:22:09 PM »

With window closed
- I could register a max of 61dbA and mean in low 50's.

Not sure if this tells about the performance of the current windows

With window closed and no train
- the place is whisper quite. Literally hear a pin drop.


Thanks!

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 07:20:36 PM »

Ok I have had a chance to review their testing data....I am happy to see they provide OITC results...these are the "real" numbers to rely on...based on the data you have provided you are already achieving a 21 db to 32 db reduction off your current window..! Excellent! 

Now to be perfectly honest, I am not sure how much more you will see with their window installed. If I had to guess based off 2" to 4" airspace you might get 7db-9db additional reduction from the max of 61db.

Here's what I have found out with field results over the years of doing this, the quieter the noise problem is the harder it is to show high/great reductions....therefore, I feel the diminishing point of returns happens quite fast...Now with your windows being so large this might be more noticeable of a reduction....
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 07:21:10 PM »

I wonder if they have an installed system that you can go experience for yourself in person.

Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 07:23:23 PM »

This truly is hard to make a solid recommendation without having first hand experience with their product installed...
Test results will always look good but they are NEVER the same in the field...
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

sbeekar

  • Guest
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2011, 07:37:20 PM »

Thanks Randy for your time looking into this.

I was afraid of the diminishing returns. At this point, I am not sleeping at night, and will probably have to "do something" and take the risk of not getting considerable returns. Its gonna cost a lot, but health is always first. I was just hopping to reduce by another 20db and life would be great.

My biggest concern is with the "triple leaf"effect. The iWindow has a 1" air space.  All windows by that company seem to be made of a glass - 1" air space - glass. If I add this setup behind my windows, wont I be creating the triple leaf?

Is it better to just find a single pane 1/4" ( laminated glass?) and use that instead of opting for the Iwindow?

Thanks

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2011, 08:04:12 PM »

I would agree with the concern for the triple leaf effect, however this will pertain to low frequency more so than the higher range....

if your unit is all hard surface, floors walls and ceiling than I would also advise you to start putting soft surface in to absorb sound faster once in your home...this will give you a noticeable reduction as well.

Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

Randy S

  • Senior Soundproofing Technical Specialist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 799
    • Super Soundproofing Co
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2011, 08:05:32 PM »

Most likely the 1/4" laminate will deliver close to the same results if installed correctly.....with the 4" air space you speak of...maybe even go 3/8"
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

sbeekar

  • Guest
Re: Looking for expert opinion on iWindow for noise control
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 05:15:04 AM »

Thank for all the info. My place is all wood, glass and concrete..very reverby. Good advice on adding wall panels.

Single pane 3/8" laminate it is then :) . I will research where to get this from.

Thanks for all your help. When done I will post pictures and results of the job. Hopefully this helps someone in the future!