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Author Topic: Simple door insulation  (Read 9737 times)

goblinsly

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Simple door insulation
« on: March 12, 2012, 02:15:37 AM »

Hey everyone,

This is my first post on this wonderfull board soo first of all, nice to meet you all. :)

Soo here is my question. There is a door in my apartment that used to be badly atached soo it had a big gap. This meant heat was leaving the place and noise was coming in. I reattached them and also used some insulating tape soo its great now. The only noise i want to block is noise from chating and occasionaly jelling, maybe a dog bark here and there ( its not much of a problem really ). Soo i ordered tervol dp-8, its basicly rock wool and i think its one of the best if not best price/performance material i can get in my country. Its dp-8 meaning its very dense. Since i dont know whether i will be staying in this place 1 month, 1 year or 5 years and when i leave i cant pick up the door and take them with me, i will try to make this simple.

The plan is to cut wool into correct size and shape and glue it together soo it will be the same dimension as the door. Then i will wrap polyvinyl around it ( make it air tight ) to prevent wool partacles to fly around my apartment. Then i will simply use something like 2 sized sellotape to "glue" it to the doors.

You probably think that this is a very bad idea and i agree with you but since i am on a tight budget and i have all the things at home exept for rock wool which wont cost much, i think its the best idea. I dont need a perfect solution since i am not building a studio or trying to prevent drum noise to come in or go out, i am just trying to get a little improvement and since my door is very thin, i think it should help at least a little.

I will be happy for some feedback on my idea. Buying new door or something like that is out of the question sadly.

whatismisophonia

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 03:05:10 AM »

Insulation material is marketed as a soundproofer because companies can sell more of it that way.  Im sure it will help a little, but I think what might be better is 2 pieces of any cheap, somewhat thick, solid material glued together with sound damping glue and attached to the door.  I didn't recommend a MLV door cover because it seems to be out of your price range.

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 04:37:14 PM »

You want cheap, attach some cement board to the door, hardie backer...you might be able to find that in your area.
And make sure you seal the door completely!

You need MASS not absorption.....
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
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goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 05:39:28 PM »

Well since i already ordered rock wool, how about that. A thin layer of rockwool and then something massive over it to cover it. Cement board ? That isnt gypsum board is it ? Its prolly something very heavy. Have to be carefull about the weight thought, soo i dont pull out the doors.

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 05:49:38 PM »

make sure door has 3 hinges... put Mass on before Rockwool....yes cement board is slightly heavier than drywall. It is used under tile sometimes.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

whatismisophonia

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 06:47:22 PM »

I have 1/2 inch hardibacker attached to my bedroom door; originally, my door was really cheap and thin.  The hardibacker needs to be cut with a smooth diamond cutting blade, and will make alot of dust.  The 1/4 inch hardibacker can supposedly be scoored with a utility blade, and snapped; upward, toward the score, not down away from it like concrete durock sheets, which are solid concrete wrapped in fiberglass mesh.  The hardibacker has wood fibers mixed in with it, so that it becomes a composite material.  With durock, you simply cut through the fiber mesh and snap it like sheetrock, then cut through the mesh on the other side (this can create a farely uneven break though, diamond saw is more exact).  One final note is that both types may be too small for your door, as they come in 3x5 foot sheets.  This was the case for my door, and I used the left overs from another sheet that I had gotten to use for a window plug to finish the door. 

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 12:23:26 PM »

Tnx for all the replies. Like i said, since i already got rockwool, i will use it + use some other material aswell. But i need to verify something first. Rockwool comes cut in pieces ( i think like 1000 x 600 centimeters ). Its supposed to be very dense, which means its structure is kindof like gypsium board ( its quite hard, can stand on its own, etc. ). But a problem is you cant just put it on wall and leave it like this. You have to put something over it otherwise you will have home full of wool dust.

Since i am looking for a cheap solution and also solution that will allow me to move rock wool to another place when i move, i came up with a simple solution like i mentioned:

I plan to put wool pieces together until i get the shape and dimensions of the door. Then i will use something like selotape to tape the boards together and then wrap polyvinyl tightly around it ( make it air tight ) to make 1 big plate ( door dimension ). This thing can then easily be attached to doors and also be removed. Polyvinyl should prevent dust from escaping. It will look ugly but i can always tape something over it wallpaper or something. I hope that condensation wont be a problem since polyvinyl will be airtight.

whatismisophonia

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 11:30:40 PM »

you got a website or something where we can see what product youre talking about?  I've seen rockwool as a thin stiff acoustic panel, but from your description, your products seems more like a type of soundboard.  If that's the case, I'm sure it will be more effective than an acoustic panel at actually blocking the sound.  Try it, sure; if it doesn't work as well as you'd like, layer it with something stiffer and denser.

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 02:25:54 PM »

Its actualy called stone wool, i dont know why i thought its called rock wool. Anyway i found this catalogue:

http://www.knaufinsulation.com/files/ki-oem-catalogue2008.pdf

If you go to page 9 you will find it. If i go to their page and click my country it actualy says that this material is used for thermal and audio insulation of walls. But on the link i gave you its actualy under door insulation which is kind of funny since i am doing door insulation and i was kind of worried if this material will be ok for doors. Well, it seems it is best used for doors hehe.

You have some characteristics about it on the link. I used the same material for insulating before but it was a lot less dense. This boards i got are very dense ( tervol DP-8 ). The material i used before wasnt. It could be squized like 1000% or more. This boards cant be. Soo i think it should be better then nothing. And it was really cheap. But for other purpuses i would be glad if i could find a material that is about 2 cm thick, cheap and offers some insulation ( since my walls dont need much insulation ). And more importaintly, i want them to be ready to put on the wall right out of the box. Cause this stone wool, i will have to put polyvinyl over it ( otherwise i will have wool parts all over my place ). And its extra work for me.

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 03:35:44 PM »

Your in fine shape, just remember mass on the door first than this product as the absorption.
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 07:06:00 PM »

I might have to put mass on the other side of the door. Its the same though, doesnt matter whether wooden door - mass - absorption or mass - wooden door - absorption. Its the same, right ?

Anyway i just finished puting the wool on. It was a mess. A few times i almoast lost my nerves and threw it all out the window. Like always, i didnt measure enough. Since im studying compter science i seriously have to learn to measure, be precice and be patient. Anyway i put the wool into polyvinyl and taped it to the door. When i say it i make it sound soo easy, but infact i dont remember ever doing something as absurd and annoying. I did it this way to save time but infact i would have done it 3 times faster if i used the method i describe in a few lines. Since i wasnt precise i left gaps on basicly all sides. But its already much better, the material isnt half bad for the price.

But here comes what i will do next:

I will get me some wood and attach it to the sides, top and bottom of the door. Like this:

http://buildipedia.com/images/masterformat/Channels/At_Home/Insulation/Types_of_insulation/Batt-Blanket_Insulation.jpg

Basicly i will make a simple frame, put it on the door and squize wool in. Then i will put a layer of wood over it to seal it. This way i can make sure its closed as it should be, with no gaps ( and if there is a minimum gap i can always use insulation tape, as long as its 2 mm and not 10 mm like now ). But for now, i am happy and i am still left with like 8 m^2 of material. Oh, i apologise for my bad english and amateur questions, it must sound stupid to those of you who are pros at sound insulation. But when your knowledge about it is limited and your wallet half empty, this is the best way to go. Thanks for all the help soo far and keep those advices coming. :)

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 06:43:34 PM »

A little update. Today while studying relational algebra, indexing and other, quite boring computer science stuff, i got 2 ideas which bothered me soo much i had to lay the book aside to write here !

First thing that got my attention is a memory. A memory of when i put my bed mattress into polyvinyl bag ( do not ask why ), but a tiny hole in it, stuck a vacuum cleaner to it and pressed on. What happened was that bed matress quickly shrinked to about 1/10 of its size, and the matress itself was quite hard at the time, with hands it was impossible to shrink it even to 1/2 of its size. Soo lets say that 1 happy guy, lets call him me, would do the same thing with stone wool. One would acomplish many things doing this. First, it would become more dense. Second it would be thinner, therefor either a) take less space -> be usefull for places where u have very little place for insulation or b) u can put more of it there, for instance 3 layers would take as much space as 1 layer before. Soo 3x better insulation with no extra space. Might be usefull for some of my computer modding projects aswell, i am sure it would be much better at insulating computer fan&disk noice then foam and stuff like that.

And second. I remember many of you guys said that beside stone wool ( which absorbs ), i need masive material aswell. Soo i was thinking. Since most of my classes at my college are basicly pure math, i use a lot of paper. And i mean, a lot. Not enough to make any money by selling it but enough to make some objects out of it. Since i remember that paper is quite heavy, strangely heavier then any other piece of wood of the same size i ever seen, would there be any use for paper as mass material ? For instance tightly glued together with maybe some foam between it ? Sadly paper is tight already soo i wouldnt get any extra space by using the vacuum on it but still, for once, as much as i hate this eco-fanatism, i could say i am actualy environment friendly and recycling ?

Just a thought, probably quite stupid but still, just a thought. :)

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 06:55:20 PM »

Paper will not work..sorry....you have to at least double the weight of the door to achieve a 6 db drop....
Mass Law....

vacuum idea is basically increasing the density value which in turn absorbs at lower frequencies.
 
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2012, 11:16:05 PM »

Absorbs at lower frequencys....is that good or bad ?

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2012, 02:53:30 PM »

its a good thing...just remember your greatest reductions come from mass...
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040