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Author Topic: Simple door insulation  (Read 15679 times)

whatismisophonia

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2012, 04:11:48 AM »

Interesting thing about a vacuum is that no sound can travel through a complete vacuum; however you'd need much more of a vacuum than you could place on a plastic bag for any effect I'm thinking.  But anyway, by shrinking down your material, all you are doing is compressing it to make it more like a solid material, which will allow it to BLOCK more than ABSORB.  But then, that's what you want with solid materials anyway.  To absorb better at low frequencies, you typically need thicker foam to absorb more of the long low frequency wavelength, as per my understanding.  Again, if blocking is what you want, just forget about the wool and do sheetrock or something (if you get a pin prick in your plastic, your vacuum is screwed).

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2012, 04:55:37 PM »

But what is mass really ? I have 2 walls near my bed that are from brick. Single brick wall but still, its mass. And it is worth sh*t, it makes me soo mad. It just isnt normal to be able to hear neighbours talking, pluging things into electric dose, opening drawers, etc. Not to mention hoses and things, its even worse. Sometimes i can even hear what kind of job ppl did at their bathroom ( whether it was pee or.... ), and i am talking about next door neighbours, not neighbours on top or below me. I just dont know how ppl building houses can be soo insensitive about this, and this part of house is 12 years old, soo its pretty new.

As for the wool, the idea wasnt to create vacuum permanently, the idea was just to suck all the air out to shrink the wool to about 1/3 of space, which i think could be done and then i would use strong duck tape to shrink it permanently ( even if the vacuum would get screwed, the duck tape would hold the wool together. Or maybe i can get some steel tiny plates to hold it together ). Therefor i could put 3x the amount of wool and it would take as much space as single layer. The idea wasnt to make it more dense to be mass instead of absorbant.

Btw this walls i was telling u about, already containing mass. Adding wool to it would be good, right ? But the problem is, i could only afford wool that is max 1 cm thick ( 0.4 inches ) or at some parts 2 cm ( 0.78 inches ), otherwise i lose too much space which i need at that part. Is it going to make any difference at all ?

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2012, 12:49:31 AM »

Just a bit of an update.
My doors are insulated with rock wool which is encased in polyvinyl to prevent any trouble with breathing, and all of that is also covered with wood and tightly shut. If there is an interest i can post a picture or two. Doors are quite heavy soo i have seen some bending but i fix it regulary. There is still a slight problem with gaps but now that i finaly got some time i am trying to fix all of them. But the difference between this and previous situation is huge. You basicly cant hear tv and music anymore, sadly human voice is still heard and i have to be honest, i simply hate human voice, it is driving me nuts that when i am studying for my computer college exams that i hear other ppl, it makes my skin crawl. But i think there is something in the voice that makes it impossible to complete shut off. I even hear talking from my neighbours and there is a brick wall between us....no wonder i can hear speech through wooden doors with rock wool and walls made of 2 pieces of gypsum board and some thin and extremely non dense glass wool ( for comparison, my DP8 rockwool is soo dense that you can walk on it and it wont change its shape, this glasswool is such that you can squize it from 5 cm to 1 mm with no efford ).


goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 05:20:54 PM »

I replaced the glass wool inside my walls with rock wool. I think as far as absorbtion goes this is all i can do for now. I have about 2 cm of space i could use for mass. Do you think it would make a difference ? I am looking for something cheap and effective to act as a mass, maybe some cement boards ? It wont cost much since i only need to insulate about 5 square meters, soo what do you suggest ?
Also i was wondering....tiles, ceramic tiles we see in kitchen, bathroom....they certanly weight a lot. Is this effective as a mass material ? They dont cost much and i am pretty sure i could get as much as i need for free. I am just thinking out loud here, as a student every cent saved is welcome, and if tiles can do the trick....great !

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 03:46:30 PM »

Use the cement board, it has a good mass value and is cheap.

Randy Sieg

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goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2012, 07:56:54 PM »

Thank you soo much for your answer !

Just to verify that we are talking about the same thing:

http://www.kalcer.si/cip_cetris/index.php#

It says it has good sound proff quality. But when i see what it is made of...63% chipboard, 25% cement, 10% water...did i find the right thing ? Because if chipboard is supposed to give good insulation...i have chipboard in cellar and i could use them....but i dont think they are the best thing to use, maybe that 25% cement makes all the difference ?

Also i was thinking, since now i have gypsium board. Maybe i should put 1mm foam over it and put cement board over it ? Maybe this foam would prevent or remove some of the vibrations ? or maybe Green glue ? This way i would have mass, absorbtion and damping. looking at this guide:

http://www.soundproofing.com/elements_of_construction3.html

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012, 09:19:47 PM »

your looking for cheap and heavy...density is mass... so yes cement is good.

what your missing is there attempt of decoupling by the use of staggered studs...

I use the cement board/ green glue / drywall system in a lot of my projects. It works well especially when it is decoupled from the structure...
 
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2012, 10:42:05 PM »

I know cement is good but in those cement boards there is only 25% cement....i guess board from 100% cement would be better. But would probably cost a lot more...soo this will be fine, some wood, some cement...

I am quite limited in what i can do here since i dont own the place. The wall is like i said. A frame from aluminium or steel, a drywall on each side and rockwool in between. Now i have about 2 cm for cement board. Soo the best i could do is make a tiny space between cement board and drywall. Since i have only 2 cm of space....i guess if i buy 1 cm cement board and leave 1 cm of space between drywool and cement board and basicly use something like foam part every meter or soo to keep that 1 cm distance. That way i can prevent vibrations moving from drywool to cement board. I will do this on 1 side and i might, i stress i might be able to do the same on the other side....that way its mass followed by absorbtion no matter where the noice is coming from.

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2012, 11:11:14 PM »

There is no doubt that treating both sides will be a great improvement...based on the frequency your trying to reduce...human speech..perfect...but for low bass and structural impact your not going to get a decent reduction with out braking the direct path..

Im not saying your not going to get any reduction just not as good as we are used to experiencing.
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2012, 01:00:51 AM »

Like i said, human speech is all i care about right now. Soo since i am limited in space....what do you suggest ? Put cement board directly on drywall or put green glue between, or maybe some spacers soo there would be a gap between drywall and cement board ( those spacers would be from material that doesnt allow much vibrations ).

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2012, 03:00:21 PM »

cement board then green glue then drywall.. make the sandwich..no gaps..


If you create a gap it must be filled with an absorber...it can not be left empty....
Randy Sieg

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goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2012, 08:24:13 PM »

And making another gap wouldnt make sense since there is already wall ( 2 pieces of drywall and stonewall between them ). Btw i read some tests of different setups and this greenglue seems to make a big difference. Considering how little space it takes, almoast nothing....difference is huge. But basicly it works the same way as if i put some foam between ? I will use greenglue offcourse because it is better but basicly the idea is the same, damping of vibrations ? Greenglue converts mechanical energy to heat, not sure if foam will do that though.

If possibly i will also put cement board on other side. Soo it will be like this: Cement board, greenglue, drywall, rockwool, drywall, greenglue and cement board. I hope that will remove as much speech as possible. Btw i am wondering...why do this cement boards have only 25% cement ? Why not like 80% cement ? Because of the cost or ? Soo even if its 63% wood and 20% cement, this cement board will be OK ? Or should i go for more costly, osb ?

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2012, 08:48:13 PM »

Just a little update.

I figured out that basicly all the noise is coming through the gap between the doors, the walls are insulating pretty darn well i must say ! Since i made this door and insulation for them, its impossible to get a tight gap near the door handle when you close them ( theywont close because of the thickness of insulation ). Soo what i will do is extend some cement board or gypsium board soo that when the doors close, this board will cover the hole. It should work well.

Randy S

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2012, 08:55:54 PM »

great job, when you do the overlap make sure you use some closed cell foam or something to make a good seal when in the closed position.

Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

goblinsly

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Re: Simple door insulation
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2012, 12:34:45 AM »

I will, i just have to go to some shops and find something good ( they usualy sell things for thermal not audio insulation ). Right now i am using some styrodur + foam from an old chair since that is the only thing i had handy and i couldnt leave such a huge gap. If i exchange that with gypsium board and some good foam ( foam actualy made for sound insulation not sitting on ), it should be much better, at least i think.

If i am honest i like gypsium board more then cement board. Cement board has greater mass but gypsium board is soo easy to work with....its like cuting styrodur or even better.....and since fixing those holes and gaps around doors will demand lots and lots of small pieces, gypsium is just great for this. Cement can only be cut by jigsaw i guess, unlike gypsium that can be cut by stanley knife. The only thing that bothers me is the price. 1 cm of gypsium board costs as much as 5cm of pretty dense rock wool.

Btw since i am here...i insulated basicly all of the wall. But there was about 50x50cm ( about 20x20 inches ) part of wall with wires and such, therefor i was unable to replace the existing fiberglass wool ( very thin and not dense ). I was thinking, since i already did this before and its quite simple... i can drill a  hole or two and pour polyuretan foam inside to fill it since the space is more or less empty, with just those wires and fiberglass wool that is like 2cm. Would that be ok ? Polyuretan is not as good as rockwool of DP8 density but still it is better then 8cm of empty space?