Author Topic: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design  (Read 6646 times)

agog

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soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« on: March 15, 2012, 01:33:06 AM »
Hello all,

I am designing a jam room with, hopefully, capability to record in an understory of a house, though without building a room within a room. The floor is concrete. The current walls are core-filled besser brick with one area 4 x 5 m and another 2 x 3 m separated by a wood wall (the latter to be used as a control room). My main aim is to keep sound from leaving the room, with recording second. I did not want to do room-within-room as the ceiling height makes it impossible and I want to keep as much space as possible.

My aim was to fill the ceiling and separating wall with acoustic batts, then MLV all walls and ceilings (and floor? - also with thick carpet), then use sound isolation mounts with resilient channel to which 2 staggered sheets of acoustic plasterboard separated by green glue or equivalent. Of course no panels connect to abutting walls/floor/ceiling etc (use acoustic caulk) to seal and plasterboard rests on rubber on the floor. Floor could go further though didn't want to float it. Would build stages for drum kit and bass amp (possibly all floor amps).

Have two doors and two windows. Doors will be solid with MLV and sealing. Would cover one window, was hoping to keep one for some light - double or triple glazed with acoustic layer. Have a split cycle air conditioner that brings in fresh air. No ceiling lights. Was even contemplating no wall lights, just a few sockets to run power to amps/speakers and floor standing lamps. Will have a patch bay for leads to control room.

Will do an acoustic measurement (mate has dB meter) to get an accurate idea of how much dB drop I need.

Would this design be sufficient? Can you use butyl mastic (caulk?) instead of green glue?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Anthony

Randy S

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 05:01:01 PM »
Good Job!!! your right on track!   stick with the green glue between sheets of drywall...and use acoustical caulk for gaps and sealing of MLV and drywall.

Good Job!! you have done your research.
:)
Randy Sieg

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whatismisophonia

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 11:17:23 PM »
I wonder if you could build your window out so that there is a larger air gap between the outer and inner layers than there is in the walls.  This would help compensate for thinner  material than what's on the walls, lack of damping compound, and lack of insulation material.  Also, it would probably be a good idea to cover the door (side facing jam room) with an inch or so of foam, unless of course you're using the mlv with foam backing.  Also, have you looked into building a door with 5/8th sheets of mdf with greenglue?  At anyrate, your doors should have damping, since they're not decoupled with any sort of air gap.  Make sure you're using some damn good weather stripping and a tight gap; that's usually the weakest point, from what I've exerienced.

Randy S

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 11:31:57 PM »
Im sorry but your wrong here buddy... Dont build the door with green glue and 5/8" MDF...if your going to go through the trouble then just install double back to back solid core doors with an extended jamb...this will give you the air space to improve the system air tight sealed....you still will have the jamb as a path of sound....
Same with the window just like in a studio...2 panes of glass with the greatest airspace possible...diminishing point of return is still the window box...

We promote green glue but dampening does NOT out perform MASS or even dead air space...!!



Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

johnbergstromslc

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2012, 10:24:37 PM »
They do sell solid doors with an MDF core, and they are nice and heavy, but to try to fabricate one yourself would not turn out well....

You'd have to add hardwood nailer strips for the hinges, and a hardwood block for the knob & latch assembly.  And people really underestimate how difficult it is to get 2 pieces of sheet material fastened together to end up flat and not twisted or warped - it takes practice.

agog

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 02:37:13 AM »
Thanks for the feedback guys, especially Randy. Good to know I'm on the right track!

I have a further question in regards to sound isolation mounts. I have found it difficult to compare products. I'm in Brisbane, Australia and there are 4 companies from which I can buy here (doesn't mean I have to buy here - Aussie dollar is still strong against the US dollar, so if import costs are low I could ship from you guys). Would anyone know effectiveness comparisons between Green Glue clips, Kinetics Isomax mounts, Rondo or Embelton mounts? The latter two may only be in Australia.

Once again thanks in advance for your feedback.

Anthony

Randy S

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2012, 02:54:32 PM »
If your going to import the isolation clips than Kinetics Isomax clips hands down...
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
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whatismisophonia

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Re: soundproofing without a room-within-a-room design
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 04:46:47 AM »
Im sorry but your wrong here buddy... Dont build the door with green glue and 5/8" MDF...if your going to go through the trouble then just install double back to back solid core doors with an extended jamb...this will give you the air space to improve the system air tight sealed....you still will have the jamb as a path of sound....
Same with the window just like in a studio...2 panes of glass with the greatest airspace possible...diminishing point of return is still the window box...

We promote green glue but dampening does NOT out perform MASS or even dead air space...!!

3 things:
He might not be able to do an extended jamb (pressed for space here); I never mentioned how thick the final door would be; damping helps with a coupled system.   

It would be a little expensive, but if only one single solid door is able to be used, you could do: 1/8" luan/ 1 tube gg/ 5/8" mdf/ gg/ mdf/ gg/ luan, and have similar thickness and weight with added damping and a decent appearance.   Or, I've also seen 3 layers of mdf with no facing; even more weight with at least double damping.  One final idea (not sure what this would weigh): luan/ gg/ 3/8" sheetrock/ gg/ 3/8" concrete board/ gg/ sheetrock/ gg/ luan.  Total thickness would be same as an average door.  Scratch that, one more final idea: buy a hollow core door and pry it apart.  With the door apart, add extra blocking for support.  Buy several 1 gallon cans of inexpensive asphalt roofing patch.  Pour the asphalt into the door as if it were a mold, completely filling it up.  What would over an inch of solid asphalt do for your resonance and internal damping?  To be completely honest, since a solid door would by nature have problems with resonance and medium/high frequency performance, why not advocate the use of some kind of damping??

About the window comment, if the depth of the window space could be enhanced with blocking installed with a damping compound to help with the structural resonance, would not that plus the extra air spring performance be an improvement?  I know I keep utilizing damping here, but damnit, it seems like you guys are the only people who dont swear by it.


They do sell solid doors with an MDF core, and they are nice and heavy, but to try to fabricate one yourself would not turn out well....

You'd have to add hardwood nailer strips for the hinges, and a hardwood block for the knob & latch assembly.  And people really underestimate how difficult it is to get 2 pieces of sheet material fastened together to end up flat and not twisted or warped - it takes practice.

This seems to contradict what personal experience I do have.  I've done a lot of carpentry work and random odd-ball projects, and I find that glueing stuff together makes it less likely to warp than solid stuff.  I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.  Now, if you're using a water based glue, I can understand warping (is gg water based)?  Even if that were the case, wiping on a layer of polyurathane and letting it dry before piecing it all together will help solve that problem.