Author Topic: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up  (Read 7450 times)

letsgobobby

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bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« on: September 25, 2012, 09:17:32 PM »
Randy you helped me conceptualize my problem last winter and I'm hoping for some assistance again.

We bought 1 soundproof window insert for one of the bedrooms. It helps... a little. Not dramatically. not enough.

We have talked with an acoustical engineer. For $2850, he will give us a complete analysis, provide a good/cheap, better/less cheap, and best/most expensive option to fix the problems, and work with contractors to ensure quality construction. We haven't taken that leap yet.

We have confirmed there is noise through the windows. We have also confirmed true vibration of the walls when trucks pass. The walls themselves vibrate. So the problem is quite serious.

We love everything else about this house and it wasn't easy to find (I have some geographic restrictions due to my work, and this was one of very few properties that fit the bill). The house is valued at > $500k. Other than fixing the problem we see the only alternative is to move and build from scratch, a very expensive proposition - probably $750k or more. So there seems to be value in trying to fix what we have.

letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 09:25:24 PM »
Recently we had 2 authorized Milgard reps out.

Rep 1 suggested Tuscany windows with 3/16 over 1/8 glass and offset glazing to get STC in the 33-35 range. He said Quietlines would get us up to STC 42-45, but they are very bulky and will look distinctly different than other non-retrofitted windows. And they're very expensive.

He also suggested exterior soundblocking shutters, which I am very much in favor of, but haven't been able to find anything. These would be great, since we only need the soundblocking at night, and the windows face away from the front of the house so appearance is not critical.

Rep 2 suggested the Quietlines. However he states he personally retrofitted his house (right near a train) with another window brand employing the same technology but ALSO rewrapped his house in Acoustifence under siding. He states this has completed fixed the problem. I researched Acoustifence. It is a heavy, mass-added rubber sheet that, when given adequate room to vibrate, does cut dB transmission significantly. I cannot find anything about using it as a siding layer. It is usually used as a free-hanging sheet in fence applications.

letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2012, 09:28:31 PM »
I called Milgard, very helpful. Rep explained they rarely sell Quietlines unless customer is doing full soundproofing retrofit because walls are typically weaker than Quietlines.

So that's where we are. It seems like we will have to do something about our walls... maybe our ceilings and floors... and certainly our windows.

Have you heard of Acoustifence or similar product used this way? How would this compare to redoing drywall? What is the typical STC of builder-grade (minimal to code) new construction exterior walls built circa 2006? Will the Tuscany windows exceed the walls?

We have 3 bedrooms to do. At $5000 per room in retrofitting costs we're cool. We're not so cool at $25,000 per room.

I'm not sure as to the next step... What do you think? What would you do?

Randy S

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2012, 10:28:19 PM »
acoustifence is basically reinforced mass loaded vinyl with grommets... you can do this on the inside or outside to add mass value to your walls.

Did you speak with milgard about doing a double window system?


your wall rating is really based on what is used for the siding..ie stucco or vinyl siding..
either way walls tend to be around 20-30 stc average.
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
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letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 10:57:05 PM »
Hi Randy,

Exterior is cedar siding, tongue and groove on the upper level, normal siding below. Rep 2 suggested that if all else fails, can replace siding with Hardi plank which has concrete embedded and reflects sound better, but this wasn't a major point of discussion.

I didn't ask Milgard about double windows. The sound engineer mentioned them. Are you thinking Tuscany plus a second, interior window? Will all that fit in a 6 inch wall assembly?

Seems like walls will remain an issue. Any thoughts about ripping out siding, placing MLV underneath (acoustifence, etc), vs double drywalling with greenglue and/or resilient channels? This is way beyond my contracting ability, I'm trying to get a sense of project scope and cost to determine whether proceeding or selling/moving is a better option.

Randy S

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 11:20:12 PM »
give me a call and lets further discuss...
Decoupling from the structure is a huge reduction when it comes to vibration but you would need both decoupling and mass.

Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 12:18:00 AM »
Randy, I will call you at some point soon. Thanks...

letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 02:43:20 AM »
OK Randy, I'm on to the next step. I'm trying to embrace this as a challenge and a project and leave it 'fun' rather than an obsession.

I am ready to try some wall work. Let's say money were no object (it is, but let's pretend). Right now I have wood siding, standard exterior stud wall, drywall interior. For the walls only (ignore windows, ceilings, floors, vents for this hypothetical), would this be "ideal": exterior siding, stud, weaving layer of MLV/acoustifence between exterior and interior staggered stud wall; quietclip; floating channel; drywall with/without mass? Remember we are talking about traffic noise including truck vibration. Is this overkill? Not enough? Which of these components is more or less valuable?

For the main problem room (master bedroom) we do have square footage to spare.

Thank you!

letsgobobby

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2012, 01:35:54 AM »
Another question.

Why isn't one of the better options to pull the siding off the entire back of the house, build a floating/staggered/decoupled exterior wall with floating MLV between, then re-side? Yes it's a big project and somewhat costly but it has the advantage of taking care of the whole house (rather than just one or two rooms).

supersoundproofing

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 12:47:53 AM »
Another question.

Why isn't one of the better options to pull the siding off the entire back of the house, build a floating/staggered/decoupled exterior wall with floating MLV between, then re-side? Yes it's a big project and somewhat costly but it has the advantage of taking care of the whole house (rather than just one or two rooms).

This has been done before with very good results!

BJ
Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org

johnbergstromslc

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 10:10:27 PM »
Another question.

Why isn't one of the better options to pull the siding off the entire back of the house, build a floating/staggered/decoupled exterior wall with floating MLV between, then re-side? Yes it's a big project and somewhat costly but it has the advantage of taking care of the whole house (rather than just one or two rooms).

You would certainly soundproof all the walls of the house (but you'd still have to do something with the roof) but you're likely to attract the attention of the local building inspectors as well....

whatismisophonia

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Re: bedroom noise... 9 month follow up
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 03:03:14 PM »
I've heard more often than naught (from acousticians) that mlv products are mostly just weight, and also that installing it between double walls will create a triple leaf, regardless of the material being flexible, though others on this site disagree. At any rate, if you're willing to double the walls and double the windows, this should solve your problem without the use of an ubber expensive mlv product.  The double wall is a proven soundproofing method that works very well, and this is something that we can all agree on. 

p.s.  With a double wall, you'll need fire blocking between floors.  Mineral wool works well for that, stuffed between the sills (if I'm not mistaken).