Author Topic: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling  (Read 15450 times)

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2015, 09:52:55 PM »
seal the floor from below using caulking, I know its a lot of work but you need to in order to get the cement board and adhesive in between the joist before you block the joist bays to reduce deflection.

6 of one half dozen of another....once you get the cement board glued and screwed and the blocking you will see a change.
Then insulate, followed by 1/2" RC-2 and finally sheet rock..
Best you can do in this type of circumstance.

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

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The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2015, 10:08:36 PM »
So we shimmed and put a reinforcing strip up against the floor boards. It took out most of the squeeking.
We added a layer of sheet rock held by a ring+ of caulking and screwed up into the floor with screws short enough not to penetrate.
It took out some of the high frequencies but the booming is still very very loud.
The joists are still vibrating like crazy when she walks.
I guess (hope/pray) the blocking will be the thing to get the boom. Are we on the right track?

Here are some pics:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_OvrdtrCurhR2l0bHdnLVpPU2M/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_OvrdtrCurhNnFScDdJWHo3VWc/view?usp=sharing

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2015, 10:19:28 PM »
looking good, yes you are on the right track..
once the blocking is put in this should reduce some of the boom that is happening.
You will have to notch out where the strips are so you get a tight solid fit with the blocking to make sure it is effective.
Let me know when it is in and how it sounds.

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2015, 10:24:07 PM »
what is the spacing between joist? is that 24" or wider?
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
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The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2015, 10:27:53 PM »
Definitely wider. I think maybe 30 inches.

The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2015, 10:35:42 PM »
Anyway, I am glad you think we are on the right path!

I am having trouble getting the iso-brackets I was thinking of here in Iceland though, these ones:
http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/icw.html
These spring ones look serious and I read they are used for low pitch deflection noise. The cost of shipping them in is huge though.

Do you think the rubber ones will be enough given the completely ridiculous levels of vibration coming down?
I was looking at these and thought maybe they would be ok:
http://www.soundproofing.org/sales/ssp.htm

I was not certain if they would be enough for this sort of problem.

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2015, 10:40:58 PM »
Ok most likely you are going to need to do joist blocking every 6' to 8'
All the calculators I am finding for dead load and live load weights for blocking and joist span are not allowing me to put in the 30" OC...
It might not hurt to research the spacing a bit more on your own just to get it right.

Better safe than sorry.

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

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888-942-7723
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The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2015, 10:44:03 PM »
Will do, and I guess it would make more sense to err on the side of more reinforcement rather than less.
I was thinking of sistering the joists too. Any thoughts on the merit of doing that?

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2015, 10:44:22 PM »
Both links you posted are isolation hangers and clips are from Kinetics (we are a distributor of their isomax clip)
The hanger requires more work to install and more channel but they are adjustable..

In my experience they both work about the same...

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2015, 10:51:56 PM »
Sister joist would be beneficial if you had joist sag or wanted to improve dead load and live load weights for the flooring or if the span was longer than it should be.
Randy S.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
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888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2015, 08:45:20 AM »
Ah... so a sister is not particularly effective for deflection noise?

I was in two minds because of how the joists are really rough cut logs, and I wasn't sure if I would reduce the effectiveness of blocking by adding a sister because getting the sister and the joist to be 100% flush seems like it will probably be a big ask.

Maybe just blocking is a better solution?

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2015, 04:06:45 PM »
Blocking is going to reduce the flex of the drum so to speak...
look at the floor as a drum, tight around the perimeter and lose in the middle...

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2015, 10:38:24 PM »
So new developments are occurring. Our build didn't work at all basically. Possibly the blocking could be improved and I might get back up there and do that as we haven't spacked or painted yet. ....So we consulted a structural engineer, who was of the opinion that a subfloor and serious padding layer was required to get the impact at its source and keep the impact energy from the old, fat, hugely spaced joists. We seem to have miraculously convinced upstairs to go halves in screwing down the existing floor, using that as a subfloor and laying new a padding layer and a new floor (or parket) on top. This was my builder's recommendation. He was of the belief that it would be cheaper than trying to retain the existing floor by pulling it up and putting it back down.

So... I was wondering what your thoughts were about all this Randy?

The_Mentiad

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2015, 10:46:58 PM »
Also, I am looking at a padding layer that is listed like this below what do you think? (we are also considering double layer of this - any opinion on the efficacy of doing that?):


PARKET descenders sound insulation 3 MM
Commodity 0113003

rubber and cork. Weight product is ca. 700 krm3. Thickness 3mm.

Tensile strength of 0.6 N / mm2 (ISO 1798).
Temperature resistance: -30 - 80 gr. C.
Fire Protection: EFL. (ISO 11925 / EN 13501-1)

Sound protection:
ΔLw = 29 dB under the carpet.
ΔLw = 20 dB under 8 mm plastic.
ΔLw = 19 dB under 13 mm parquet.
ΔLw = 18 dB under 16 mm solid parquet.
LnTw + CI = 51dB under the tiles.

Randy S

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Re: decoupling vs pumping cellulose into ceiling
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2015, 10:56:34 PM »
Anytime that you can get it at the source will always deliver a better reduction and you get far less flanking problems as opposed to just isolating a ceiling.

just remember impact is one of the hardest to reduce especially when only addressing below.
I will agree with the structural engineer.


Randy S.
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

 

anything