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Author Topic: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming  (Read 6936 times)

beta447

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Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« on: January 06, 2016, 10:37:38 AM »

Hello forum. I am here to ask about how to soundproof my upstairs from the disgusting sound of my neighbors slamming their car doors. I have several very large windows up here and the windows in them are dual layered, as in a storm window as well as a regular window with a couple inches of space between. The window itself also seems to rattle, but that is the least of the problem at this point.

Unfortunately, it seems as though a lot of the noise is in the lower frequencies, the hardest to block. I am upstairs and they are downstairs, but their driveway is only ~40 feet away.

However, in the attached pictures you can see this sort of indentation that runs all the way around the inside of the window frame where theoretically you could seal a large, thick pane of glass into the inner perimeter of the window frame. All 4 of the windows I am looking to sound proof are like this, although at the bottom there is of course nothing but a flat window sill.

As a side note, the space between the current inner window pane and my planned future inner pane is 3-4" which I understand is enough to create an effective space between glass layers. I will lose the use of the windows in here by doing this, but I almost never open them anyway and so I don't really care at this point.

My questions are as follows:

1) Is this a good way to attempt this? I do not know how to do this well, but the fact that the window frame was built like this seems awfully convenient and I really want to take advantage if it will work.

2) How thick of glass will I need, what kind, and what kind of sound reduction am I looking at? I have heard that plexiglass does not block sound well enough, even if it were say 1/4" thick and combined with the other 2 layers of glass.

3) How much of this noise could be coming through the wall? I am not 100% certain to what extent the noise is coming through the wall and what is coming through the window. Again, the windows themselves are quite large and dominate the wall in the photo. But I would hate to spend a ton of money on thick glass, install it, only to find out the wall is vibrating and there is no hope.

4) To what extent can planting thick/tall hedges mitigate this problem? Am I likely to even get a 5db reduction if that is well done? I have read that building a berm can absorb the sound well, and theoretically I could build one in the spring very close to their driveway.

Thanks very much in advance.

Randy S

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 05:39:47 PM »

We have a DIY system that uses plexi glass and yes it is not the best but you do not risk breaking the pane if you drop it.

http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/magnetseal_windows.htm

If you want the best then install 3/8" laminated glass. The heavier the pane the better the reduction.
Most likely the walls are currently a stronger sound blocker but as you increase the value of the window the sound might move to the walls...
In some cases we have to go back and add mass to the wall in those situations.

Low frequency is very hard to dictate the reduction.

Shrubs and hedges will do little to nothing for this problem.
a berm would only be as good as the height to distance ratio from source.

Randy S.
 
Randy Sieg

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beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2016, 01:21:35 PM »

Thanks for the reply. I am looking at 1/4" laminated glass from this one place. I doubt the extra 1/8" is going to make that worth it. It is already QUITE expensive at that thickness where I am looking at as much as $1500 to do all the windows I want to do. Do you recommend anywhere where I can get these custom cut???

ALSO, is there some sort of soft material I ought to line the perimeter where the glass is going to be pressed down and sealed?

Also, I might add that the distance between the slamming doors and the house is actually slightly over 50 feet, a bit more than I originally thought.

Randy S

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 04:53:55 PM »

I do not have a recommendation for glass companies.
Normally the glass company will use a neoprene seal around the glass at the time of installation.
I would suggest you soundproof the windows then assess how much you still hear.


There is no way to justify wall soundproofing until the windows have been done.

Randy S.

Randy Sieg

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beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2016, 10:37:14 AM »

In terms of the neoprene seal: how much should I leave off the dimensions of the glass when I order the panes in order to accommodate the added thickness of the neoprene? Would .25" less on each dimension make sense?

Randy S

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2016, 04:21:27 PM »

This is where I yield to the glass company, You should contact them and see what they use as the industry standard because it could range from 1/8" to 3/8" .

Randy S.
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beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 07:30:18 AM »

Well it has proven difficult so far to find a company that makes custom laminated glass at a reasonable price. There was a place in the UK with great prices but they don't ship to the U.S.

I am thinking of going with acrylic at this point. But given that acrylic is a little less than half the density as regular glass, would 1/2" acrylic be nearly as good as 1/4" laminated glass? I am especially interested in the answer to this question re: bass frequencies.

beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 02:22:03 PM »

Also, I read in another thread that there are diminishing returns above 3/8" but I couldn't tell if that was in reference to laminated glass or all glass. This company says that there should potentially be 5db more sound proofing in the lower frequencies when going from 6mm to 12mm.

Randy S

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 09:39:23 PM »

Ok as for the 1/2" acrylic we find in the field that 3/8" vs 1/2" is only a noticeable difference when the air gap is 3" or greater. at 2" gap the increased cost of 1/2" is not worth the cost vs reduction.

what the other company is referring to is mass law...which states that when you double the mass you lose 5 db .... However, that is over the average range not specific frequencies and especially low frequencies...So the value will vary.

Randy S.


 
Randy Sieg

Super Soundproofing Co
www.soundproofing.org
888-942-7723
Ph. 760-752-3030
Fax.760-752-3040

beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 02:25:41 PM »

The distance between what would be the back of the new pane and the lower window FRAME is 2.5", but because the 2 window panes which comprise the upper and lower half of the window(s) are recessed into their respective frames, the lower WINDOW PANE itself will be a bit over 3.25" away from the new pane. The upper WINDOW PANE, also recessed into its respective frame, will be about 5" away from the new pane. As you might imagine the upper half is recessed further into the larger overall frame than the lower half as per the design of this particular window. So I think it may be worth it. The upper and lower pane frames are both made of wood if that helps.

Also, re the db ratings for this material from this company, here is the link:

http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/plastics_library/Plexiglass-Noise-Reduction

Randy S

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 09:29:40 PM »

Agreed, Let me know how it turns out..

Randy S.
Randy Sieg

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Shelle

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2016, 10:42:09 AM »

Hi how did you end up going with this?? I have the EXACT SAME PROBLEM AS YOU!!!!!! one crappy neighbour in and out all night with the car, comes home 10pm next minute out again, comes home 1am , leaves the garage open and slams all the doors!!! I also had double sliding doors - got them double glazed with 6.5mm LAM hush glass - around 10cm air gap.. fabulous for voices and the hum of traffic but the car doors - that thud I can still hear it :-(  ..Kills me because I just bought this new place for myself and I love the property, but was truly considering selling it because of the awful neighbours. Also they just krank the music up any time of the day or night.. Some people say during the day it doesn't matter but I disagree..  I think a thumping bass that is intrusive on other people is wrong any time of the day or night. I seriously think these people must be deaf or hard of hearing.. The entire complex can hear not only their cars, but music and yelling on the common driveway after midnight ...the glass is fabulous for the voices though.. really cuts it out and I find I can sleep now ..but still get woken by the car doors!!! Any further possible solutions to lower frequencies??

beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2016, 01:54:54 PM »

Thanks for replying Shelle.

I have yet to move forward with this purchase. I will certainly respond back when I have something to report.

*** Can you please tell me how far away the slamming doors are from your window? Mine are ~50ft away, depending on where they are parked and what room I am in. Also I am upstairs, and the cars in question are obviously parked on the ground.

ALSO, when you say double glazed, do you essentially mean .25" ;aminated glass || 4" Air space || .25" laminated glass?

My setup is going to be, from outside to inside (I'm not 100% sure about the existing window thickness measurements) - a storm window (1/8"), an interior window (1/4") with a 3"+ air gap between the two, and in the future I will add 0.5" plexiglass with an air gap of >3" and in one case 4"+, with the top half of the window having an air gap of ~5".

beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2016, 03:27:34 AM »

Well I may decide not to do this after all because it just isn't worth it. Look at page 6 of this document. Essentially, the profile of a car door slam is that you get a 100db sound for 0.1 seconds and not under 70 until 0.5 seconds at 50hz!!!!! That is outrageous! It seems that slamming car doors may be one of the most difficult sounds to effectively censor based on this paper.

I have not read the whole thing, but it basically shows the decay of the sound over time and the volume at different frequencies. The loudest frequencies are unfortunately the lowest ones, all of which are 100hz or less. That means for 0.1 seconds, based on another line graph I have, you could be getting 80-85db of low frequency sound through the wall.

However, given that the car door slam is ~50ft away, I calculated on this page:

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

that I would see a reduction of ~25db just due to the distance from the source. So that would bring down the low frequency thud inside to 55-60db at best for a really loud slam.

To be fair, above 125hz things get much easier for sound blocking and there is a significant amount of noise in this range to deal with. But without an effective way to block the low frequency sound, rearranging my house is probably smarter.

Tragic that these assholes had to move in. We had almost 25 years of peace and quiet. The only real options here seem to be a long 6 ft brick wall or a gigantic berm, neither of which is likely to happen.

beta447

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Re: Sound Proofing Windows/Walls From Neighbor's Car Door Slamming
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2016, 03:56:06 AM »

Here is the other graph.