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Randy, thank you so much for your reply.

I would imagine that you would say there is no way to truly address this without actually opening up the walls. Is that true?

We are planning to put up melamine tiles on a portion of all walls. I understand that this doesn't decouple— but your description of sound waves hitting the entire room— will the tiles at least absorb some of the waves and thereby prevent them from traveling?

I guess what I'm saying is that we aren't in a position to open up the walls, and that we are willing to live with a situation that is not completely soundproofed. But we wanted the improvement to be more substantial than it has been so far.

So, within those parameters— do you think that the absorption on the walls can make any significant difference?

Again, thank you so much.
Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: Success! DIY secondary glazing story
« Last post by kevinr on September 28, 2017, 10:13:50 AM »
Correction: 6mm is 1/4" - not the 1/2" I gave.
Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Success! DIY secondary glazing story
« Last post by kevinr on September 28, 2017, 08:21:41 AM »
Over the last few weeks I've been reading as much as I can here about soundproofing our townhouse. It is an attractive 3-story 2000 sq ft home on a busy road right on the waterfront.

But my home office and the main bedroom - the two rooms I need quiet for - are on the second floor just 30 feet away from 12,000 cars and trucks each day. And we're also near the flight path to our airport, where aircraft reach only 2,000 ft on their departure/arrival.

However, I knew when we bought this place 2 months ago that nothing was impossible, and so I set to work to get some peace and quiet.

The first step was to order double glazing for both second-floor rooms. I did that partway through my research, and I know now it will make a little difference - but not as much as secondary glazing.

So while I waited for the install early in October, I decided to go ahead and do some DIY secondary glazing, because from the comments on this forum and elsewhere I wasn't entirely sure that double glazing would give the final best result.

So this afternoon I fitted the following to my office window of 4.6ft x 5.5ft:

- Two 6mm / 1/2" acrylic sheets fixed with magnetic tape to the interior outside edge of the window frame, giving an air gap of 4" from the existing single pane window.

The result was almost instant quiet, showing an average drop of 10 dB from the road noise, and far better than I expected. I measured it about 3 feet from the window:

- With the window closed, no secondary glazing: 42 - 55 dB (avg and peak)
- With the window closed and my secondary glazing: 32 -45 dB.

I made the readings from the NIOSH SLM iPhone app, which is one of the more accurate meters I've used. I averaged the readings out over 5 minutes each time and they were very consistent.

The best part, I later tried my Bose noise-canceling headset, and everything disappeared! Absolutely no noise whatsoever. Up till now when I wanted thinking/writing time I had to use a Youtube rain forest background through the Bose and often turn it up to 4/10 volume to drown out trucks and tire noise.

Now, near silence.

Without the Bose and sitting 3-4 feet away from the window the sound is very muted. Of course, large trucks and motorcycle mufflers are never completely quietened, but it is a considerable reduction there nevertheless. So I'm delighted.

As Randy often says in his replies to the questions on this topic: You need mass and air to kill noise. I agree and my setup proves it.

I was going originally to use 3/8" /10mm acrylic instead of the 6mm, but the extra weight made it impractical. For security, I have used two screws at the bottom of the 6mm panel to support it. The 10mm panel will take a lot more work to support.

So maybe 10mm is in the future now that I've seen how effective secondary glazing can be. I can only hope that the upcoming double glazing will put the final edge on the project, and I'm looking forward to that.

So thanks everyone for your contribution to my knowledge base!
Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: How to seal two acrylic sheets together?
« Last post by Randy S on September 25, 2017, 08:54:45 PM »
Let us know how it works if you do that method..this has been a problem we have been trying to solve for years with mixed and failing results.

Randy S.
Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: How to seal two acrylic sheets together?
« Last post by kevinr on September 25, 2017, 08:53:18 PM »
OK thanks Randy, that's going to look pretty ugly though. Might have to get them mitered and use magnetic tape on the faces.

Best to call me direct for " Band-aid" approaches.

Randy S.
By simply soundproofing the floor does not stop flanking noise from the 4 walls in the room sending sound to the downstairs neighbor..

What I do not see is decoupling for low frequency and lots and lots off Mass....

ecore is for footfall and impact but is not going to perform as you would expect for low frequency..

simply addressing the window seat I highly doubt would improve the overall results.

You are not dealing with just " impact / footfall" you are generating ambient sound waves which will deliver some vibration through the legs of the piano but that is minor compared to the size of the sound waves from the piano... look at it like hitting the entire room with a sledge hammer...thats what you are creating...

This requires far more attention to decoupling and mass.

Feel free to give me a call direct.

Randy S.

Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: How to seal two acrylic sheets together?
« Last post by Randy S on September 25, 2017, 08:21:17 PM »
The only solution we have come up with that works is to add a 2x4 in the middle and use the L Frame to make the seal for each panel.

Randy S.
I have a specific case where my sound system is setup in the basement of my house.

Two floors up are the bedrooms. My subwoofer gets up to the top floor. I'm on a concrete floor, with a nice thick carpet.
I just want to reduce some of the sound getting upstairs.

My sub is under my large desk (cheep door laid across two filing cabinets). I just want to a realatively inexpensive way to reduce some of the low-frequency sound getting upstairs without taking out my walls.

Is there any way I can utilize the concrete floor to my advantage? Would putting thick sound proofing foam padding in between the sub and the wall help at all?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Condo, small room.  All walls and ceiling are adjacent to my own rooms.
Floor is above a quiet neighbor and I am trying to protect her from my new piano.
It was a big expensive undertaking and now we discover that it has failed. :( :( :( :( :( :(

Steps already taken:
1. Hardwood floor ripped out.  12mm Ecore underlayment installed, with Bostik sound-deadening glue above and below it.  New hardwood floor on top.
2. 8x10 rug covering majority of room, with thick memory-foam rug pad.
3. Piano placed on caster cups designed to isolate vibrations from floor.

After all this expensive work was done, We tested it again.  The sound of the piano is still very present in the downstair's neighbor's room.  I am absolutely dejected.

Voices did not transmit, and or course the lower tones transmitted most of all.

So this brings me to my present question:

There is a large window seat right next to the low end of the piano, which was not addressed.  Soundproofing expert returned and said that the window seat cavity may be hollow.  He recommended that I open it up, fill it with a couple layers of mineral wool, and re-install that flooring.

Will this work?

It's so discouraging to have all this expensive work done, and to wait the many months for it to get done, and then to have it seem to make almost no difference. 

Attached is a photograph from the side of the window seat, whose top is about 18"x74".

I earnestly seek your advice, and I thank you in advance for your consideration.

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