Super Soundproofing Community Forum

Soundproofing Forum Topics => Sound Control if you're Renting - Apartments, Condo, ETC => Topic started by: Ivan on August 21, 2011, 11:54:12 PM

Title: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 21, 2011, 11:54:12 PM
Hi,

I am living in the 3rd floor of an apartment. These days my downstairs neighbors uses ceiling fans, which cause the floor and my bed shaking during night. It is not noise, but can be more annoying. I talked to them and they won't do anything. So is there any solutions from my apartment? I put vibration isolator mounts under the bed feet, but they do not work well. Will it work to put a rug or some thing else under my bed? Thank you !
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on August 22, 2011, 03:41:10 PM
As a structure based vibration this will be a challenge. This vibration will be remitted through out the structure in the areas of least resistance.

You can put an underlayment and carpet wall to wall to get direct reduction, however the vibration will then be remitted from the walls.

What type of vibration pads did you use under the bed?

Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 22, 2011, 10:20:00 PM
They are the so called "vibration isolator". Small round stuff. Does not work.

The vibration is weird, that I can only feel it in a pretty small area, perhaps less than one square meter. Only my body shakes, but not my bed (At least I cannot feel it when I touch it). I do not know what it is, hopefully it is not infrasonic. If it is not easy to isolate, is there any possible ways to monitor it? Thanks!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on August 22, 2011, 11:57:24 PM
well its definitely not infrasonic cause the sound waves would be so large you wouldn't be able to get away from them in your home and if you can isolate it to one square meter then it most likely is your first idea of the ceiling fan....lets do a test...remove the vibration pads and replace them with wash cloths folded into quarters one under each leg. If you have wood floors, I also would like you to put folded towels or multiple blankets under the bed covering the whole floor under the bed. Let me know the results...what percentage of change is perceived.

Lets see if we can isolate it ourselves before jumping to expensive testing methods.

Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 24, 2011, 06:05:30 PM
Cool! The wet clothes work! Thank you very much! The vibration has been reduced significantly. By the way, I am just curious, will only wet clothes work, or any other wet silk, cloth or fabric are good? And if I want to completely block the vibration, what else can I do? Many thanks, have a good one!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on August 24, 2011, 06:21:04 PM
No no.. they are not supposed to be wet!....water helps transmit vibration...

Wash cloths... Dry Dry...
Use dry wash cloths and you will see more reduction...

Fix and re assess.

let me know.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 24, 2011, 11:02:04 PM
Oh......that's why I feel better after a few hours. Will try it again. Have to wait until the downstairs turn on their fan...
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 25, 2011, 03:42:16 PM
Hi Randy, it looks like the dry clothes work better than towels. And it depends on the material, I think. A combination of towels and clothes will reduce about 30%-40% about the vibration. Although I can sleep now, but I definitely hope to reduce more. Is there any other effective way? How about a area rug covering the whole bed area?

Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on August 25, 2011, 04:09:38 PM
Ok, since our little test yielded such good results you can order these products to improve the reduction even more.

This underlayment in a footprint larger than the bed.

http://shop3.mailordercentral.com/supersoundproofing/prodinfo.asp?number=09-00005CC-54F

then cover with area rug. followed by using these vibration pads under the legs of the bed.

http://shop3.mailordercentral.com/supersoundproofing/prodinfo.asp?number=09-4-4-DIMPLE

Make sure your head board is not touching the wall.

Happy to be of service. :)
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Ivan on August 26, 2011, 12:26:21 AM
Thanks a lot for all your help! Will try the MLV and Pad soon.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: flutterby on August 16, 2012, 06:26:28 PM
What about vibrations coming from a roof? :-( see my post: http://supersoundproofing.com/forum/index.php/topic,3612.0.html
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: seenordrew on November 26, 2012, 06:27:31 PM
Hello,

I just joined the forum because I'm having a similar issue to Ivan.  I moved in to a bottom floor apartment close to two months ago and have been trying to find a solution to a vibration in my floor which keeps me from sleeping.  I first noticed it as a humming sound in my pillow and that it is something coming through the floor.  I bought sorbothane pads to put under the legs of my bed, and it killed basically all the sound coming through and the vibrations in the bed, but it seems like the vibrations are still coming up through the floor and creating this uncomfortable feeling in the room. 

I've determined it's nothing in the apartment and it doesn't always happen.  I can happen every few days or so.  I've been looking into padding my floor with rubber flooring and then covering with thin carpet just to cover it up, and then I found this forum and wanted to ask.  Is the material that Randy mentioned below specifically for vibrations?  Will it work better than something like this? http://www.rubberflooringinc.com/rubber-roll/pre-cut-commercial-roll.html

Thanks so much!  I really hope I can get this sorted out soon and get some good rest again.

Andrew
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on November 26, 2012, 06:32:47 PM
That product you show is for vibration...when dealing with vibration into airborne sound which is what your experiencing then you would use the MLV closed cell foam wall to wall sealed airtight then your carpet.

Feel free to contact me direct anytime.
760-752-3030 ext 104

Randy S.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: seenordrew on November 27, 2012, 03:47:22 AM
Hi Randy,

Thanks for the info.  Since I'm just renting and I doubt my landlord will approve of the work on the floor I will probably have to go with another option.  I will contact you soon to discuss! :)

Thanks so much,
Drew
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: JCPistorino on July 07, 2015, 10:04:33 PM
Randy,

I came upon this thread and I am interested in pursuing the suggestions you mentioned in the previous comments. I will try using the rags this evening but can you please send me the updated links to the products you suggested to mitigate floor vibration? The old links are for mailordercentral not supersoundproofing

-Jonathan
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on July 09, 2015, 05:32:33 PM
New links, sorry for the delay.

http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/Mass-Loaded-Vinyl-48W-w_Closed-Cell-per-foot/productinfo/09-00005CC-54F/

http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/SSP-Dimpled-Vibration-Isolation-Pads-3-1_2x3-1_2-SET-OF-4/productinfo/09-4-SET+OF+4-DIMPLE/

Randy S.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: jfreidin on January 08, 2016, 01:44:42 PM
I am having an identical issue as the original poster- subtle yet incredibly maddening vibrations coming from my floor. I feel it throughout my apartment (a open floor plan artist loft). There is really no space or insulation between my old hardwood floor, and my downstairs neighbor's ceiling. I think the vibrations are coming from his heating system- if his is like mine, which I think it probably is, there is a fan unit attached to his ceiling and large piping that blows the air the length of his unit.

I'm wondering if you have any more great suggestions like before on how to deal with these vibrations throughout the studio, and not just in one central area. I've got tabs open on my browser for the floor covering and pads you suggested, but hoping there may be more I can do?? Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on January 12, 2016, 05:31:49 PM
Since you have a similar situation you would have to cover the entire floor with our Mass loaded vinyl w/closed cell foam sealed airtight to the walls.
Followed by carpet and padding.

http://www.supersoundproofingsales.com/Mass-Loaded-Vinyl-48W-w_Closed-Cell-30-Roll/productinfo/09-00005CC-54R/

Randy S.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Fraconian on January 19, 2016, 05:01:46 AM
I don't know how similar my problem is to Ivan's.  However, since last May, I have also been dealing with on and off floor vibrations throughout my carpeted apartment.  I had to practically beg my apt. manager to do an inspection of the  second-floor apartment below me.  (I am on the top floor, i.e. third floor apartment in the building).  He finally did early last summer and said he "found nothing unusual".  Further, he said, "I suspect a faulty AC unit".  An HVAC technician came last summer and made some adjustments in the ACs or HVAC system over my rooftop and there was indeed a declension in the overall vibrations.  At one point they were so bad I could not even play the piano without it feeling almost "electrified" from the intense rolling floor vibrations.

When the vibrations are particularly strong, there is nowhere I can lye or sleep in my apartment without experiencing the vibrational currents.  They presently seem to be worse from 10 PM to 12:30 AM in the evening with the rolling, "percolating" type of vibrations, with an intensity of "4"on a 1-10 scale.  But very annoying when trying to rest, lying on the couch. 

Actually there are three type of vibrations I am experiencing.  (1) There is the magic finger type of a more rapid frequency and lower intensity, as if sitting in a massage armchair.  (2) There is the erratic, percolating type, as if off on a lake on an air mattress with a feeling of erratic jolting of currents from beneath oneself.  (3) And finally, when it is at its worst the floor vibrations are  of a pulsing nature, with regular jolting vibrations, and this type is of the strongest intensity.  Fortunately I haven't noticed the pulsing vibrations recently, but were much more frequent last summer. 

The HVAC technician explained something about  #3 type as having to do with the AC units on the rooftop over my apartment that are dinosaurs, and explained that when they are low on Freon they need to kick in harder and that the parts are old in these units, causing these currents to transmit downward to my apartment.  Buy strangely I do not feel them on the walls; but then again, it is not as if I am  lying on the walls for long stretches of time as if in bed or on the couch.  I can only feel the walls with my hands for seconds at a time, and I do not sense the bothersome vibrations through the walls.  So evidently, somehow the currents are being transmitted downward and through the joists of the floors.  (The neighbors below me in the second floor apartment say they do not feel the vibrations).

Randy, do you know if there is anything I can do on my part to mitigate these most annoying floor vibrations?   It had gotten to the point last year that I actually had to start looking for another apartment, because I could not stand feeling the unwanted vibrations in bed at night.  Would it do any good to get  the 4" anti-vibration pads and put one under each of the legs of my bed?  Thank you much!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Fraconian on January 22, 2016, 09:15:24 PM
I don't know how similar my problem is to Ivan's.  However, since last May, I have also been dealing with on and off floor vibrations throughout my carpeted apartment.  I had to practically beg my apt. manager to do an inspection of the  second-floor apartment below me.  (I am on the top floor, i.e. third floor apartment in the building).  He finally did early last summer and said he "found nothing unusual".  Further, he said, "I suspect a faulty AC unit".  An HVAC technician came last summer and made some adjustments in the ACs or HVAC system over my rooftop and there was hence a declension in the overall vibrations.  At one point they were so bad I could not even play the piano without it feeling almost "electrified" from the intense rolling floor vibrations.

When the vibrations are particularly strong, there is nowhere I can lye or sleep in my apartment without experiencing the vibrational currents, mainly via my lower limbs.  They presently seem to be worse from 10 PM to 12:30 AM in the evening with the rolling, "percolating" type of vibrations, with an intensity of "4"on a 1-10 scale.  But very annoying when trying to rest, lying on the couch. 

Actually there are three type of vibrations I am experiencing.  (1) There is the magic fingers type of a more rapid frequency and lower intensity, as if sitting in a massage armchair.  (2) There is the erratic, percolating type, as if off on a lake on an air mattress with a feeling of erratic jolting of currents from beneath oneself.  (3) And finally, when it is at its worst the floor vibrations are  of a pulsing nature, with regular jolting vibrations, and this type is of the strongest intensity.  Fortunately the pulsing vibrations have subsided since the cooler weather set in, but these were much more frequent last summer, when multiple rooftop ACs were ratcheted up.   

The HVAC technician explained something about  #3 type as having to do with the AC units on the rooftop over my apartment that are dinosaurs, and explained that when they are low on Freon they need to kick in harder and that the parts are old in these units, causing these currents to transmit downward to my apartment.  Buy strangely I do not feel them on the walls; but then again, it is not as if I am  lying on the walls for long stretches of time as if in bed or on the couch.  I can only feel the walls with my hands for seconds at a time, and I do not sense the disturbing vibrations through the walls.  So evidently, somehow the currents are being transmitted downward and through the joists of the floors.  (The neighbors below me in the second floor apartment say they do not feel the vibrations).

Randy, do you know if there is anything I can do on my part to mitigate these most disturbing floor vibrations?   It had gotten to the point last year that I actually had to start looking for another apartment, because I could not stand feeling the unwanted vibrations in bed at night.  Would it do any good to get  the 4" anti-vibration pads and put one under each of the legs of my bed?  Thank you much!
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on January 22, 2016, 09:33:30 PM
Franconian,

What year was this building built???

There is no doubt that HVAC unit in clusters above a unit could cause such a problem especially if they are old dinosaurs. Are there any anti vibration pads under the units?

Advise,

Randy S.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Fraconian on January 23, 2016, 04:16:37 AM
Randy, thanks for your quick reply.  It seems whenever there is a significant change in the weather, either colder or hotter, there is a change in the nature and intensity  of the vibrations.  Like presently we had a slight warm-up in Michigan that quickly changed with a cold front setting in tonight.  Ergo, all day I've been feeling what I refer to as the #2 vibrations---that is the rolling, erratic vibrations that can be felt throughout the floors of my apartment, both throughout the carpeted  floors, as well as the vinyl floor in the kitchen.  Even with my stocking feet, as I set here and type this message, I can feel the rolling currents through my carpeted bedroom floor.

The building was built in 1968 if my memory serves.  For sure it was build in the 1960s; this building is a three-floor, 30 apartment building.  I am on the third floor.  When the Manager sent over the HVAC technician to explain the situation to me last summer, that "the parts are very worn out" in the AC units, I just replied, "God, I hope he (the Manager) replaces them."  I am trying to "adjust" myself to these unsettling and disconcerting vibrations, but it is not easy, particularly when the pulsing was so rad last summer.  I don't think these are acceptable living conditions @ $850 per month.  I guess, Jim, the Manager just expects me to put up with it.

Late summer at the height of the ordeal, I sent Jim some information from this site, I believe---on possible short-term remedies to the vibrations.  He said he had also had complaints in the other (front) building.  And it looked like an AC company came and put in a new AC unit on the rooftop of the front building, though I am not sure because I did not ask. 

I don't know what they did, if anything, as far as sound proofing the units over my apartment rooftop.  What would you recommend?  Do you think it would make sense for me to at least purchase anti-vibration pads for my bed?  I tried the folded washcloth method, and it did not work; the vibrations still broke through.

Thanks once again, for your time and help!   ~Franco
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on January 25, 2016, 07:28:28 PM
Franco,

If the wash cloth test did not work..Do not buy anti vibration pads...The test should have shown some improvement to justify the purchase...

In order to soundproof the ceiling it would require complete ceiling removal and installation of a decoupled ceiling system...

If they replaced the units in the front of the building did those tenants experience a decent reduction?

Do you have access to the roof ? I need to see some pictures of the units.

Randy@soundproofing.org


Advise

Randy S.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Fraconian on January 29, 2016, 03:01:56 AM
Randy,  I'm not sure about the front building.  I will ask Manager, Jim about it.   I know the rooftops of both buildings were tarred about seven years ago.

 I've also been wanting to ask him if I could take a look on the rooftop to see exactly where the HVAC contraptions are.  I believe there is a compressor setting right over my bedroom.  When I get up there I will take a few pictures and send them to you.

Thanks again for your input.
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Fraconian on January 29, 2016, 11:06:53 AM
Randy,  I'm not sure about the front building.  I will ask Manager, Jim about it.   I know the rooftops of both buildings were tarred about seven years ago.

 I've also been wanting to ask him if I could take a look on the rooftop to see exactly where the HVAC clusters are.  I believe there is a compressor setting right over my bedroom.  When I get up there I will take a few pictures and send them to you.

Thanks again for your input.

6 AM update:  fairly bad vibrations in the bed again tonight, keeping me up.  However, I am not sensing the rhythmic waves throughout the floors of my apartment, as I often do.   And I never sense the vibrations emanating from the walls.   Strange.  I know that a metal bed can be a conductor of vibrations like my bed with a metal frame and metal  box springs, picking up every nuance from the floor.

Is there nothing I can do as a temporary remedy of these vibrations?  Nothing short of moving out of here?
Title: Re: Floor Vibration
Post by: Randy S on January 29, 2016, 07:31:02 PM
The wash cloth test did nothing..with that being said we have to really do some homework before I can  make a recommendation...

I do not want to have you spend money and it do nothing to reduce the problem

We will see when you get me some pics of the roof top units.

Randy S.