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Soundproofing your Condo, Townhouse or Bed & Breakfast / Re: CEILING SOUNDPROOFING
« Last post by Randy S on April 08, 2019, 05:21:12 PM »
ok lets go through these one by one..

1.  "As a general rule, hat channels are significantly inferior to resilient channels since they are not free to move and achieve dissipation of the sound energy "
 Answer: only if you are not using isolation clips as we suggest. We use isomax clips from Kinetics and they are a rubber clips and allows us to separate them up to 4' apart which is far less contact points that resilient channel does. Also these systems allow us to load far more weight which is key to top noise reductions.
2. Yes, we have been saying this for 20 years..the problem I have run into with contractors and clients alike is space space space...they do not like losing ceiling height and believe me 5/8" does make a difference in the eyes of the client. as for your hole sizes ...as big as you can and as many as you can...
But I like your interest in this topic so I will share a tidbit, if your just addressing airborne sound I have had to design systems with sheer wall in play forcing the triple leaf and have been successful by changing the way the center leaf reacts by dramatically altering its mass and adding dampening to the center leaf.
3. Why not tape after caulking? The thin layer of drywall mud + tape + finish drywall mud won't make more of a hard surface than paint. You'll end up with a far better looking angle. That's how I've been finishing angles since 1978 (when we didn't have good acoustic calk). It's possible my approach compromised STC, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that.
Answer. Depending on location acoustic caulk expands and contracts, coupled with floor defection has caused the corners to crack on many of my projects in the beginning. it could be caused from a number of variables from drywall crew, size of gaps, temperature changes to even floor deflection.
after enough times dealing with that complaint I gave up on saying they could. that recommendation will not come from me :)
4.
The ceiling I have planned has a bed room wall covering the ceiling joist. In the bed room and on the other side of the wall the RC channel would need to be cantilevered almost 16" (5" is the max cantilever).  I think I can solve that problem with the AERO-SUPPORT (AS-1) clip
Answer.  We do not recommend the aero clip for ceilings.. we have done it a couple times..you have to put a screw through the channel into the clip to secure it from coming out of the clip.

Randy S.
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Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: Help soundproofing a metal utility door
« Last post by Randy S on April 08, 2019, 04:57:19 PM »
you can use contact cement or construction adhesive complete coverage (do not spot glue)
then add a screw and washer in each corner.

Randy S.
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Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Help soundproofing a metal utility door
« Last post by Loud Music Maker on April 07, 2019, 02:05:48 PM »
Hi, I soundproofed a wall with rock wool, MLV, 2 sheets af 5/8 drywall with green glue between, roofing tape around the electrical boxes, sealed everywhere with acoustic sealant, it works pretty good but the metal utility door hung on one end of the wall is transmitting sound, the door is sealed very well it’s the actual metal part of the door that is the problem, I need to muffle the metal, I have a left over piece of MLV that would cover the door perfectly, I’m looking for advice how to attach the MLV to the door and any other tips.
Thanks,
Rob
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Soundproofing your Condo, Townhouse or Bed & Breakfast / Re: CEILING SOUNDPROOFING
« Last post by Rick on April 06, 2019, 11:14:05 PM »
Randy S wrote in http://supersoundproofing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4118.0.html
Quote
Mud and tape on the perimeter just created a hard mount around the perimeter..drum head..lose in middle tight around perimeter.

I'm not convinced of that. The ceiling is not a hard mount, it's now floating on the RC channel. The tape on the wall is like anything else attached to the wall.

Tape is flexible, that's why seams/angles are tapped. Fill angles/seams with mud and and it cracks very quickly (because of movement).

You might be right but I'm skeptical taping the ceiling after proper installation (with aprox 1/4" gap on the perimeter with acoustic non-harding calk) will increase sound transmission.  I'll be caulking the perimeter after the first layer of 5/8" rock and caulk again after the 2nd layer.

I'm OK with doing no tape on my ground level if that results in an audible improvement.
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Soundproofing between floor in existing construction to reduce impact (footstep) noise is the most common soundproofing request.

You need to decouple the floor. That is done with RC channel. But you can't just add RC channel to an exiting ceiling or you end up with the triple leaf effect - which can magnify the sound. In http://supersoundproofing.com/forum/index.php/topic,4317.0.html I post my recommendation. I'm waiting to hear from Randy S to see if that's a (pun intended) sound approach.
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Soundproofing your Condo, Townhouse or Bed & Breakfast / Re: CEILING SOUNDPROOFING
« Last post by Rick on April 06, 2019, 09:22:14 PM »
@duleaux wrote
Quote
1.  Fill the cavities between the existing ceiling rafters by blowing cellulose insulation above the existing drywall ceiling
2.  Apply isolation clips (Whisper, isoTRAX, etc.) to the existing drywall ceiling (please read on, I realize this is considered bad practice)
3.  Apply hat channel to the isolation clips

As a general rule, hat channels are significantly inferior to resilient channels since they are not free to move and achieve dissipation of the sound energy

From http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/uploads/Acoustics_Solutions_Paper.pdf

Quote
I realize that affixing isolation clips to an existing drywall ceiling is considered bad practice because it can create a mass-air-mass resonance chamber between the two layers of drywall that actually can worsen the noise.  However, in step 4, I would sandwich a 1" layer of rock wool (or fiberglass) bats between the two layers of drywall to fill the void and absorb the sound waves traveling between the existing ceiling and new layer of drywall.

What you are describing is called the triple leaf effect (TLE). I've been told by an acoustic engineer a much better way to mitigate or even defeat the TLE is to bore holes in drywall. I'm waiting to get his recommendation on a schedule (size of holes and spacing)

@Randy S I'd be interested in your opinion on the bore-hole solution and recommended schedule.

Quote
So my question is how are you supposed to finish the ceiling drywall edge?  If you leave a small gap of 1/8th or something which you then fill with acoustical caulk you would still have a funny looking ceiling edge.

@randy S wrote
Quote
The key to this is to make sure you are only using factory edge of the drywall and exact shim sizes.
once the caulking is installed use a caulking corner tool to finish while wet.
coat with a primer and paint, it actually looks good when done right.

Why not tape after caulking? The thin layer of drywall mud + tape + finish drywall mud won't make more of a hard surface than paint. You'll end up with a far better looking angle. That's how I've been finishing angles since 1978 (when we didn't have good acoustic calk). It's possible my approach compromised STC, but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that.

Even using factory edge/butt against the perimeter, you never get a uniform gap. Construction is never square, the only question is how out of square is it.

The approach I'm taking is two layers of 5/8" rock with green glue between layers.

The ceiling I have planned has a bed room wall covering the ceiling joist. In the bed room and on the other side of the wall the RC channel would need to be cantilevered almost 16" (5" is the max cantilever).  I think I can solve that problem with the AERO-SUPPORT (AS-1) clip http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/as1.htm
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Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: Magnetic seal question
« Last post by SteveH on April 04, 2019, 09:49:32 PM »
Thanks, that's a good point.  I can screw in the metal frame but have to rely on adhesive if I use a magnet on the wall.
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Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Re: Magnetic seal question
« Last post by Randy S on April 04, 2019, 06:34:59 PM »
That should work, the only problem I see is the adhesive not sticking to drywall or wood very well.

Randy S.

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Soundproofing Windows and Doors / Magnetic seal question
« Last post by SteveH on April 04, 2019, 05:46:00 PM »
Hi, I posted this on another forum page and am reposting here in case I put it in the wrong place.  I have learned a lot from this forum and really appreciate everyone's knowledge.  I am convinced that a magnetic interior storm window is the right choice for me.  The only question I have is whether a magnet-to-steel seal is better than a magnet-to-magnet seal.  I know the Magnaseal uses a magnet-steel seal, but I saw another product that uses a magnet-magnet seal.  And I have read that magnet-magnet connections are generally stronger than magnet-steel connections given the same magnet.  So is there a functional or performance reason to go with a magnet-steel seal rather than a magnet-magnet seal?  Thanks!
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